Justice Is Permanent Not Transitional

The following is the text of an interview with Dr.Ramazan Bashardost, a leading presidential candidate and a former minister of planning.

Bashardost: Killing does not end in Afghanistan by killing. Hanging with hanging or torture with torture can not end in Afghanistan. Some one says he has tortured my child so I also should torture him. It is important that the criminals feel sorry for their deeds publicly through radio and television. The destructions should be compensated. Then we must decide whether the family of victims want the trial of culprits or forgive them.

Transitional justice:

Q: What is your definition of transitional justice?

A: As Ms. Sima Samar and others gave detail of “transitional justice”, but I said No. Justice is permanent it is not transitional. I do not pay much attention to the program of transitional justice made by UNAMA and the Afghanistan Independent Human Rights Commission (AIHRC). In my point of view justice must be in a way that king and beggar should be equal before law. If the king commits crime he should he held accountable. If a beggar commits crime he should be held accountable. If I win I will ask the people of Afghanistan what to do in this regard? Two ways are experienced so far in the world: One in South Africa at the time of Mandela. Second approach was experienced in Nuremberg, Hague, Yugoslavia or Czechoslovakia. What ever option the people of Afghanistan choose; Nelson Mandela’s or Nuremberg, I will do that. I am not a dictator to decide.

Q: According a consultation with 6000 Afghans, the people demand prosecution of war criminals. What is your opinion?

A: Killing does not end in Afghanistan by killing. Hanging with hanging or torture with torture can not end in Afghanistan. Some one says he has tortured my child so I also should torture him. It is important that the criminals feel sorry for their deeds publicly through radio and television. The destructions should be compensated. Then we must decide whether the family of victims want the trial of culprits or forgive them.

Q: In your way what is the relationship between justice and reconciliation?

A: Justice and security are connected to each other like a chain. If I occupy office as president at 10:00, at 10:30 all those who are accused of crime and felony will be suspended from whether they are ministers, district governors or officers. If they are sitting on their official seat, they must stand up as they hear their suspension order from radio. The Interior Ministry will be ordered not to let a single of them leave the country. A mobile court will be established from those judge and lawyers who have no part in crimes and their lives will be guaranteed even the life of their grandson. The judge must start his work with fairness including defense for the accused. . If the accused was unable to pay money for lawyer, the government will pay for him. Whatever it may be, the outcome of the trial will be enforced.

Q: One of the challenges of your government may be that human rights violators join the opposition?

A: Under Bashardost, 99 percent of Afghans will see their lives bright and full of joy. The remaining 500 individuals who have turned the lives of Afghans gloomy will have no option to resist. Will they go to Panjsher? They do not have body guards or land cruisers. I will tell residents of Panjsher, if they come there that you have the choice to take them to graveyard or as a guest to your house. Bashar Dost favors justice not execution or hanging.

Q: Has the Peace Commission established by Karzai been successful in brining peace?

A: The real factor is war not peace. They should answer where they spent billions of dollars that came to Afghanistan. They should answer that they had part in killing and massacring and issuing Fatwa (religious decree) against anti-government forces. They are the government mercenaries and Mullahs. If Taliban get the power they will slaughter them from the back of their heads.

Q: What is your opinion about the National Amnesty Bill passed by the Parliament?

A: I said at that time that they would gain a bad name with no good result. No one has the right to forgive the rights of people. God says, I can forgive my right, but not the right of people. When God has no authority then how the members of parliament have got the power? It is against the Constitution and Islamic teachings.

Q: What is your definition of peace and reconciliation?

A: I do not favor the peace by Stalin and Hitler that makes graveyard from societies.

Q: What is your plan for bringing security and lasting peace if you win the elections?

A: I have 52-article program that is published.

Election Transparency:

Q: Will we have fair and transparent election?

A: Yes we do. The results provided by members of commission after they visited 27 provinces and the result of Obama’s cooperation, compared to Republicans that still want to support the orphans of George Bush in Afghanistan, and are satisfactory. .

Negotiation with the Anti Government Forces:

Q: Some of the candidates have promised to talk with Taliban and Hezb-e Islami. What is your opinion in this regard?

A: All the candidates except me say they will negotiate with Taliban and will give to them posts like ministry and governor. The only candidate who does not talk of negotiation, dealings and seat is me. I have asked the candidates that will Mullah Omar negotiate with you in these suits and ties from which drops of Taliban blood are falling? Certainly “Not”. I only know “Afghans”. For me Hazara, Uzbek, Afghan, Tajik, Khalq and Parcham, Talib all are Afghans. Government is not one to divide between this and that.

Corruption:

Q: What is the man factor behind corruption in the current government?

A: There are two types of corruption: Bribe in dollars and bribe in Afghani.

Those who take bribe are also of two kinds: first, the poor class of the society who can not buy bread with his money. We should feel pity on him and provide him good salary with land and house. The next group is the miser ones. Their desires can not be fulfilled however you give them. They should be punished. I will suspend all those who take bribe from the day I take the power.

Q: What is exactly your plan for fighting corruption?

A: Good salary for teachers, government employees and governors, opening of hoarded reserves, health insurance and educational scholarship. Salary taking officials will be suspended from their positions and a special mobile court will be formed to deal with these cases. Whatever the violators have violated or stored in any part of the world must be returned back to the national treasury.

Based in Kabul, the Afghanistan Watch focuses on activities that promote justice, respect for human rights and a culture of accountability and transparency in the country. Recognizing the need for greater understanding of the perils and opportunities facing Afghanistan today, the organization aims to conduct in-depth research and publish reports and papers on issues relevant to its goals and values independently or in partnership with other national and international organizations.

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International Relations and Security Network(ISN) / Security Watch
14 December 2009

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